My Shredder "experience"

[Ryan]

Okay, so last week I had Rich send me the Shredder package, the enhancer, and a helmet via FedEx. I received the materials the next day. I read the book, and I watched both tapes, all in one sitting. I offer the following as not really a traditional review, but more as an account of my experience. There are others who can talk about production quality, music intros, specific training drills, etc.

This is the first "concept/tool/weapon/whatever the hell you want to call it" that I have added to my personal repertoire in years. I am a bit ashamed to say, I actually, if only very briefly, considered not teaching the Shredder because I wanted it all to myself. Anyway, I got over it, and two days later I included it in a women's self defense seminar that was already scheduled. The results were fantastic.

I taught the basic Krav Maga two hand choke defense, and I used it as the delivery system for the Shredder. It was great. No one had ever seen anything like it, and it was so easy to learn.

For one of my follow-up demos, I gave an instructor of mine a training folder, and I allowed him to open it and put it in his pocket. He also put on the helmet (I picked this instructor because he was "uninitiated" in the ways of the Shredder, and he outweighs me by nearly 100 pounds.) I then told him to come at me anyway he wanted, and that he could pull the knife at anytime. The first time, the knife never got out of his pocket, and he ended up face first on the mat with my knee on the back of his neck. The second time, after he regained his bearings, he actually got the knife out, but dropped it immediately. I was amazed (as was he and everyone else.) I talked to him afterwards, and he said the second time he was determined to get me, and he couldn't believe that he dropped the knife as it came out of his pocket. He said he didn't know where he was, and it felt like there were six of me.

I must say, there were a few skeptics, and I got the typical, "well, I would just do this" kind of responses. Of course, those people wouldn't step up and prove themselves, but all in all, it went very well.

I plan on using the Shredder in my KM classes, and I may introduce it to my kids classes as well. I just have to figure out how to assimilate it into the curricula. I am sure to give credit to that Dimitri guy.

I want to thank Rich, Helen, MP, and everyone else who played key roles in developing the Shredder and bringing it to the masses. If you are on the fence, get the f-off and order this stuff.

[Richard Dimitri]

Ryan, very cool, thanks man! I'm glad you enjoyed the materials and were able to use them as you did. More and more people out there are adopting it and it's really cool to see. Thank you for the credit and acknowledgement as well, I appreciate it.

Please keep us posted on your development with it.

[Ryan]

If anyone out there is teaching the Shredder to kids (not necessarily your own, but in a class environment), I would love to hear about how you do it: drills, control, etc.

Thanks!

[malevolent preacher]

In praise of Krav maga!

I'm serious. (Ryan's kind) .... he used a KM principle as a delivery system for the shredder. I don't know what was the move but. looks like it worked. Good job Ryan... we call this "binding". very good! hopefully more will follow in your footsteps.

[Poi_Eater]

Ryan, I have to respectfully disagree with the idea of teaching kids the Shred. I've been around a lot of kids and have two wild little boys myself. First of all, kids are not responsible (or mature) enough with the knowledge of how to eye gouge, something that has serious consequences and ramifications. Secondly, when kids fight on the playground (unlike adults), they usually don't have the physical strength to do real damage to one another. Maybe they get a bloody nose at best but nothing that requires a hospital visit. When two adults square off, serious blows can be traded which could be life threatening and the Shredder (along with their other tools) gives the responsible person added protection and a greater chance at self-preservation. My humble opinion would be to teach students who are old enough to understand the serious consequences of gouging their fingers into someone's eyes.

Aloha

[Richard Dimitri]

Good reply Poi, I have to agree... it depends on the age and the maturity level of the child as well but all in all, the Shrdder can be taught to children in its mild form. Wothout the eye gouges and ear tears etc. It can be taught as a hand to the face 'windsheild wipe' distract method that leads to other tools. Personally, I'd have to agree with MP (not that he mentioned it on this post at all) but I would start young children with either BJJ or Judo as a delivery system and incorporate certain RBSD tactics that abide by their ages and maturity levels.

[Bri Thai]

I teach my kids to Shred. They are 11 and 7 years old (boys). The older one has been bullied quite a bit, and still is. Just won't fight back........

Anyway, I let them practice on me. The older one has especially taken to it. He seems to concentrate on head manipulation and getting behind the attacker. His fingers are all over my face and he does a real good job that is developing each time.

We have spoken about the danger to the eyes. And I have told them how the Shred can be applied with different levels of force.

Neither of my kids have ever been accused of bullying, and I am satisfied that they will only fight if they really have to. But this is one of our mantras.

Don't fight unless you have to. But if you have to fight, you have to win.

[Poi_Eater]

Those are great points, thanks for the helpful insight!

[Chad Power]

I'm with Bri, I've taught my kids to Shred and we have lots of fun playing with it.

One of the most important and innovative aspects of the Shredder is the fact that it can be applied from any level of force...be it a drunk buddy or a weapon attack at an ATM. You can window wash or you can rip and tear.

My oldest daughter is 6, and I playfully drill it with her quite a bit...she thinks it's a blast to shred Daddy. But she also understands that if someone is holding her down, holding her arm, etc, that if she shreds them (remember that all she knows is the window washer) it'll help her get away. In my children's classes, I teach basics that are useful for a child's everyday life. Diffusing a bully with a non-violent posture (which we call 'Calm Palms'), getting to safe zones, how to get someone off of you (basic grappling), etc. The Shredder is a great tool for children if it is approached properly. The underlining principles such as chest to back, ghosting footwork, powerbox, and such are extremely valuable and very applicable to kids.

Think of it this way, would you not teach a child to grapple because of all the chokes, joint locks, etc? Of course you would, you would just modify it by not exposing them to those particular aspects.

So goes the Shred...

[malevolent preacher]

Dear "ohanas"

I taught my kids (11-9-7) to shred as soon as they could walk... They do the wiper... and besides my kids are intelligent and have judgement, my daughter already shredded a kid 2 years older. She crashed 2 fist through the defenses (The word is loosely applied here) and Rubbed the kid's face real hard, broke a lil' skin but nothing major.

It warmed my heart and brought a tear to my eye!

No ka hoi!

[Poi_Eater]

O.K. I'm sold, "the Wipe" does sound like a good idea. Maybe the 5 year old could use it for other purposes as well.....

[Chad Power]

Maybe the 5 year old could use it for other purposes as well.....

[Ryan]

Don't think about it for playground scuffles, but what about more serious threats that children may face?

Oh, and thanks MP--I think.

[sam tsang]

Poi,

While you make a very good and general point, it all depends. I hvae taught my 7-year-old the shredder. We train with it 3x a week in some form. The subtlty of measuring how much force to use is something one has to constantly stress. Like MP said, if the kid uses moderate force, just alittle skin break will happen.

Ryan, I think it is very easy to teach kids, much easier than adults. However, I tend to stress how much force to use which involves scenario training. Then in a controlled environment, we can discuss what went wrong or right in each case. This also helps the child an alytical skills which seem more important than any technique (e.g. eye gouge, throat strikes) he or she can learn.

Since this kid is my own, I told him in no uncertain term that he is NOT to use it on his little brother and mom (duh!!!). If he did, I would first punish him and then report him to his Sensei. The disgrace to his dojo would be too much to bear as he just LOVES martial arts of all forms. However, as the case of Poi's point, my child is more sensible than most and has a lot of compassion for the underdog. So he would never bully anyone. Since he is a model student at both his school and dojo, I would trust him to use it wisely. But continuous scenario practice seems to me the key to teaching that sense.

With respect,

Sam Tsang

[malevolent preacher]

kids are natural shredders... they have not been polluted with years of "sporting values", "pseudo codes of honor" and the fair fight syndromes that adult have.

It took my daughter under 30 seconds to grasp what took 5 hours of training and repeating until blue in the face for "multiple black belts"

Let it rip! litterally!

[dreherb]

Well, I'll have to say that I agree with Ryan. The shredder in its application is simple, yet highly effective. The benefits you can gain in addind the Shredder to your "tool box", don't even fit within the scope of this discussion.

On the comment about dissenters, they never seem to want to step up to the plate.

An on the note about teaching kids, teaching them the "less aggressive" version of the Shredder makes perfect sense, as long as the maturity is there.

[Shoehorn]

Don't fight unless you have to. But if you have to fight, you have to win.

Hello Bri,

Regarding the above quote, it is good that you are consciencious enough to safeguard against your children bullying other children, and I see that you are taking pains to teach them skills to protect themselves, but I feel that the above mantra is slightly too inflexible and could interfere with your children's appropriate intuition on when force needs to be employed in their own defence, or that of others.

I am speaking from personal experience, when I found the need to modify my own mantras and directives. I have found that certain people present totally unwarrented and downright evil behaviours, that compel even a peaceful person to employ violence, in the wider interests of self-preservation and general social cohesion. I came to the conclusion that once I ensured that I did not carry unwarrented malice towards other people, healthy behaviours would follow.

I feel that if your children have been raised to value justice, then they can be trusted to act appropriately. Don't victimise, but don't be a victim.

Just some thoughts.

[Bri Thai]

I hear what you are saying, but can't understand how that particular "mantra" compromises their response? I am a bit thick though, so can you explain it in another way?

If my kid had been in a fight they know that the first thing I want to know it are they OK. The second is what justified it and, if they had a good reason, the third thing is what present would they like.

[Shoehorn]

Ok, it's just that this mantra sounds like one I used to repeat. I eventually came to the conclusion that being too peaceful did not reduce wider prevalence of violence around me. I was too passive and this made people around me, more violent.

I think it is really down to how your children interpret *having to* fight. I think that some unsavory situations need heading off, before they get to the stage where one has no other choice. I prefer the mantra of not looking for trouble, but dealing with it, if it arrives.

My experiences as a child and into adult-hood have been such that at the points where I was highly reluctant to fight, were the times when all the rats and roaches came out from the sewers and from under their stones, to draw me into the very thing I was trying to avoid. The times when I didn't give a shit, and greeted anyone sizing me up, with an insane grin and a dangerous attitude, were the times when things did not regress further.

In short, my own unfortunately extensive experiences with violence, was due to my passivity, IMO. I think it is safer, not caring if you have to fight, but also, not having an urge for violence, either.

It sounds to me, as if your older child is slightly too aversed to violence, but I could be wrong, so if you think that this does not apply to his situation, please feel free to disregard. I'm speaking from wide personal experience and observations, but it's not gospel.